Did you ever wonder if cavemen and cavewomen struggled with the battle of the sexes? Samia Rida and Rob Small did, and they made a short film about it! Day Moibi interviewed the filmmakers at Cambridge Film Festival where THE WHEEL screened as part of the ShortFusion: Glass Ceiling strand.
Day Moibi: It seems you used a comedic tone to talk explicitly about the subjection of women. Why did you decide to connect on this perspective using this tool?
Samia Rida: I think you can sneak a lot of things in through comedy that people won’t notice if they’re finding something entertaining. I do stand-up as well, and I talk about quite heavy stuff. I think its a great way to not allow people to think, “Oh God, they’re lecturing me”. It can kind of bypass that. It can be more subversive, I think.
DM: Why is this, the understanding of how women are being used, something you’re always trying to push in your work?
SR: I became a feminist when I became a mother, really, because it is a really sexist domain. I’m really wary of being preachy, as it is so easy to be dismissed, but when you do have kids you do go back to the 1950s in terms of the role that you play. Everything is just assumed, and before you know it, you’re just doing it because everyone assumes you will. So, I guess, unfortunately, I still do come across that sexism. I mean, I have gone out for dinner with someone who’s completely dismissed me, and clearly not interested in what I can actually do at all. I’ve even found myself playing up to that role, like how you end up play the roles expected of you.
I’ve ended a masters in writing, which was really interesting. There were loads of women on it. Really young, really cool, really spirited women. A lot of feminists, actually. I kind of looked at the whole subject all over again, and I just think there are things that still need to be said, still need to be talked about. There isn’t always equality.
DM: Why do you think ‘Feminist’ is still such a dirty word?
SR: What I worry about with that word is that I don’t want to alienate men. I think men suffer from a lack of equality, I think everyone suffers from that. It breeds resentment, and once that happens, everyone’s screwed, really, because if you’re in a relationship with someone and there isn’t equality, you’ll constantly be taking revenge on them, without even knowing it yourself. So I think the problem with the word ‘feminism’ is that it alienates men, and I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to vilify men, I just think there isn’t equality. There’s a stereotype that comes with the word that kind of defeats you before you begin, you know? It puts people on that back foot, which is why I’m wary of it.
DM: As the whole series of shorts is called ‘The Glass Ceiling’, do you think there is a sort of Glass Ceiling for you as a filmmaker, talking about these issues of equality for society?
SR: To me, class is much more of an issue in filmmaking. I think there’s still a lot of upper-class people who are monopolising that whole scene, which is an issue that isn’t addressed at all a lot of the time. I mean, people do talk about it, but not loads. Even yesterday, I was talking to a producer from the BBC, who was saying that he’s produced a lot of good things, but how production crews are always white males, because they’re the only ones who feel entitled to do it, you know? It’s like creativity. Not a lot of people feel like they’re entitled to be creative, due to class, or whatever it might be down to. It’s not the fact that they’re not creative, it’s just that those doors aren’t open to them, and that’s the problem. I thought that was really interesting. How he’s shooting all the time and still looking at the crew and thinking; “Where are all the others? Why isn’t the rest of the world being represented? Why is it all white guys with man buns in skinny jeans?”
Rob Small: That’s one of the advantages of this technological revolution, though. The tools are much more available. I mean, it used to be a big money issue. They’d use this huge machinery that wouldn’t be accessible to everyone. But now, you know, it’s a lot easier. It’s not such a class thing.
SR: Even so, I still think that it’s a case of personal mentality.
DM: Why did you decide to use the prehistoric period as your back drop to this topic?
SR: I just thought, “This has probably been going on forever, and it’ll probably go on forever, so wouldn’t it be funny if there was some cavewoman who was totally dismissed but actually invented something that could change history completely if it was discovered?” I guess that just made me laugh a little bit. I mean, I actually did go out with a writer for an evening to talk about writing, but realised half way through that we were actually there to talk about different things. I’ve been in those situations before, where you know it’s just not worth your time.
DM: From when we are born, we’re set into this role. The inequality between man and woman is not the same with other ethnic minorities where there is a beginning point. But now we have all this modern societal pressure added on top of it, which makes it harder to fight the issue. It’s quite sad that women are taught to be something, when we can be everything, which I think men are taught. What was the hardest part of pushing this idea forward in your project and what you try to do with your work?
SA: Sometimes I wonder, “what’s the point of it all? No one makes use make these films, so why the hell are we doing it?” It costs a lot of money, and it’s inconvenient. So that’s why I think staying motivated is quite challenging for me. It depends what day you ask me that on, but today, that’s my answer. It’s a constant problem that no one really talks about. The fact that when you do decide to do something creative, you sometimes can think, “wouldn’t I be better being a plumber, getting someone’s water going?”
DM: When talking about how the love story should play a large part in a woman’s life, we’re just told to play it safe. But now I think finally, we can talk about diversity and the dimensions of what a woman’s life is. There’s not just this one box, we can open up all these other boxes.
SR: Well that’s the way forward, isn’t it? Opening up the boxes and showing people what’s inside. I don’t know if you relate to that, but that’s what’s going on.
DM – I agree. We need more female directors and writers just to bring forth their work and talk about themselves, and be genuine and honest. This is how you get great art, no matter if it’s just one minute or twenty five minutes.
SR: That’s very important to me too, yeah.
DM – I feel that in your work, a very short and sweet idea that shows you understand that even if you’re not a feminist or don’t want to say you are, you can relate to it.
SR: Yeah, I’m definitely not against feminism, but it has become a tricky word. I guess words are like that, aren’t they? They get taken by groups of people and get abused, and in the end you’re just like, “Well I can’t use that word anymore now, you’ve ruined it for me!”
DM: Rob, what were your thoughts when joining the project?
RS: Well, I like Samia’s work, and we came together very easily. With a lot of the other films there are bigger budgets and more planning, but Samia just goes and does it. It’s good because a crew on a film I worked on recently were mainly women, and on this kind of level there are a lot of women. In this case, curated by Samia. Once you get into the bigger league with the feature films, however, it’s all men. Maybe in time, it’ll change, but I don’t know.
SR: There is still a long way to go. There’s a very small percentage of us.
RS: Isn’t that the same in most industries, though? It’s not just with film, it happens in other fields like banking, you know, anything.
SR: Of all places, everyone should be represented in film. Everyone loves to escape, whether it be in T.V, film, whatever. Everyone wants to see themselves up there, and wants just something to relate to. To know they’re not on their own. So, it really does have a responsibly to represent everyone, and live through them.